How to Get Found Online Without Social Media

Julie [00:00:02]:
Hey there. Welcome back to the show. Today I have Jules White with me, and I. Is it Jules or is it like, you know, because a lot of people call me Jules.
Jules White [00:00:14]:
Yeah, yeah. No, I am a Julie as well, actually. But, yeah.
Julie [00:00:17]:
Are you a Julie? Okay. But you go for. You go as Jules.
Jules White [00:00:22]:
Definitely. Yeah.
Julie [00:00:23]:
I love it. I love it. So welcome to the show. So excited to have you.
Jules White [00:00:28]:
Thanks for having me here.
Julie [00:00:30]:
Yes. And today is actually the first time we’ve. We’ve actually met on school. Right. Like, the power of collaborations through being in the right rooms. And we just. I think actually there was a. I, I’m.
Julie [00:00:44]:
I did a post for podcast guesting, and that’s how we kind of found each other, which is so cool.
Jules White [00:00:51]:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And we need to sort out you coming back onto my podcast as well, so we can do a swap.
Julie [00:00:57]:
I love it. I love it. Which reminds me, I have to book a time.
Jules White [00:01:01]:
Let’s do that. Okay.
Julie [00:01:04]:
Okay. So, Jules, you’re a website and SEO marketing consultant, specifically. Well, I’m going to let you. I’m going to let you introduce yourself, as I usually do that. I was just trying to, you know, be. Be proactive and anyway, so I’m going to let you take a few moments to introduce yourself.
Jules White [00:01:25]:
Thank you. So, yeah, I’m Jules White. I’m a website and SEO marketing consultant. So I help mainly women with established businesses to understand what to do to get their website showing up in search. So searches in Google, getting recommended in AI search, getting their podcast showing up in search. And I’m not like a SEO agency where I come in and do it all for you. It’s all about educating you so you understand how to keep it in house and take the steps that you need to take moving forward to get your website working for your business so that you can spend less time. Yeah, so you can spend less time marketing your business, basically.
Julie [00:02:03]:
And truly, I think, like, this is not the thing we learn at the beginning, but I think it’s the fundamental thing that we should learn about when we first start our business. Like. Like, I’m just getting into the SEO of things now. Like 10 years, a few decades in. Right. Like, I mean, my business has changed over the last 20 years, but let’s say the last 10 years I’ve had my online business. And these are some of the things. I mean, we didn’t have AI then, but these.
Julie [00:02:31]:
Some of the things that I wish I knew then, that I know now, but now we have really no excuse with the tools that we have. To be able to help us to do this stuff, right?
Jules White [00:02:42]:
Yeah, definitely. And I think the tools can be a bit of a double edged sword because sometimes they help us and sometimes they just send us down a rabbit hole. It’s like not necessarily guiding us in the right way, but we’re certainly at a better position to be able to easily find out how to do something, even if we need to work on the strategy ourselves.
Julie [00:02:59]:
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so first of all, let’s talk about like the importance of SEO and the importance of creating content to, so that we are found without. Like that’s part of what we have to do to get out there to get the visibility and people know our business, search for us, find us and all that stuff. But also this is the part that goes along with doing the collaborate, the collaborations and all that stuff. Right. So it’s kind of like a package deal, so.
Jules White [00:03:36]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think we could, we can talk about how the collaborations can help with that. Definitely. That’s a big part of it. But I think it’s always good to start with what SEO is and what it stands for because it’s not a given that everybody knows what it is. So SEO stands for Search Engine optimization. I can’t even say it. Search engine optimization.
Jules White [00:03:57]:
And it basically means that the information on our website or anywhere online actually, because we can optimize lots of different places online, but I mainly talk about websites, is set up in a way that it’s readable by the bots that go through and crawl through our website. So usually that would be Google, Google’s bots. We talk about that AI bots are now also something that we need to consider as well. But it’s essentially, it just means that, that people, that the information on our website makes sense and that we then show up when people are out there searching for either a solution to their problem or searching for a business like ours. And we give ourselves the best chance of showing up for that, really, that’s findable.
Julie [00:04:36]:
And that’s why I think that it’s so important to not go all fancy on our copy on our websites. Right? Yeah.
Jules White [00:04:43]:
And a lot of it is one of the things that I see time and time again, a lot of the mistakes that are made is the basic kind of structure in the back end. So. So website builders often set us up to fail with this, where we go in and we try and style our pages and make it look nice. So we might make some of the text bigger, we might set some as a heading, like the headings that we use on our website is a big part of SEO and of making our websites readable by the bots and understandable. And we end up going in and just changing the size of the text and put that as a H1 heading, and that is a H5. And we use it for the visual styling. But actually what that’s doing in the background is then really confusing the bots that read through our pages and not having our page in a structured layout, really, if we think of it like kind of like an English essay where you have one heading at the top, that’s your H1. And then everything else should follow a hierarchy naturally down the page.
Jules White [00:05:38]:
And what that’s then doing is telling the bots these are the important parts of this page.
Julie [00:05:43]:
Oh, my God, that’s so important.
Jules White [00:05:46]:
And it’s such a basic thing. Yeah. You were saying about having the basics set up and we, you know, we overcomplicate things. But even just that if. If all websites were like that, it would make every, you know, it would really help us with showing up in search being found. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Julie [00:06:01]:
What, like, I, like, I feel like we might be jumping. Jumping around here, but, like, what are some of the things that we can do and do we have to do things consistently to actually grow our SEO?
Jules White [00:06:16]:
Well, we do definitely. Google likes to see a website that is up to date and is being updated. But I think when you think about what, like, if we’re talking about social media and how much content we have to create for that and it’s never ending. Whereas with our website, we can create a piece of content and that can be working for us for years to come, really. So that’s one of the reasons that I love it, is that when you. The good thing about SEO and being findable is that when you do that work, you do it once and you might need to go in and update it, but it can still continue to bring that traffic into your website for years to come. And the right sort of traffic as well. So it’s not, you know, it’s not about interrupting people’s scroll, even if.
Jules White [00:07:02]:
If the algorithm even. Even shows your content up to it to, you know, to the person who’s on social media or whatever, it’s connecting with the right people at the right time. Exactly. When they’re searching for what you sell.
Julie [00:07:14]:
Yeah, so. So I feel that, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel that consistently blogging could be an important key to helping SEO. Right.
Jules White [00:07:26]:
Yes. Yeah. And I think I went off on A bit of a tangent there from your original question in terms of like blogging and things. So one of the things I always say, because often people will think SEO and they will think, right, blogging straight away. Yeah, but one of the things that I would say is make sure that your core website pages are, are optimized first because those are the pages that are going to bring the money into your business. So as much as it’s great to have blogs and we do get to a point, especially if we’re trying to grow our authority and what we want to be known for, then creating strategic content can be really helpful. But first and foremost, make sure those sales pages, your services pages, if you’re a, you know, service based business, your homepage, your about page, make sure they’re set up properly first and then those pages can keep working for you. You don’t need to create new content for that.
Jules White [00:08:13]:
And then maybe you start off with a, with a blogging strategy. Even if even releasing a new blog once a month, that’s a good piece of content that’s got a, that’s got a real purpose and you know why you’re creating that content. And it’s linking. Your con is linking to the other stuff that you’ve created and then also linking into your sales pages as well. That’s, it’s so much more strategic when you do that and it can continue to work for your business as well. Really? Me.
Julie [00:08:39]:
Okay, so optimizing your website as well. So probably the sales pages are like the homepage, the sales pages are probably really important because they’re the. Okay. And when you say optimizing are like you’re going, that’s going back to the. Make the headers and the body. Right, the, the text paragraph.
Jules White [00:09:02]:
And yeah, so there’s a lot, there’s lots that’s involved with optimizing websites, but basically we are trying to make sure that the content on that, on that particular page aligns with what people are searching for. And there are strategic places on the pages. I think I have a list of like 11 places on the page where you can optimize for a particular keyword. And you’ve probably heard everybody’s heard of sort of keywords and that can sometimes in itself be a stumbling block for people because they don’t really know what to optimize for, don’t know what to choose. And I think if you just take it, step back a step and just start thinking about what you want to be known for, which page of your website is the most Appropriate to be. Be known for that. So if it’s a, like my, my background, I was a salon. Salon background.
Jules White [00:09:46]:
So I was a beauty therapist for, for many years and I did the marketing in the salon at the same time. And even just thinking about wanting to show up for a facial treatment in this location, using that as the place where you start thinking about, okay, am I mentioning that in the right places on, on my page. And there’s things that you can do in the back end of your website builder, like setting your page title and your page description, which you might find under SEO settings, or it might be called a meta title, meta description, setting that and then talking about it throughout the content on the page as well. So that’s the optimizing part. That’s, that’s a big part of it is actually where you’re using your keywords on the page, but also then making sure you’re linking your content together, that you’re having a strategy as well. I think that’s the big thing is making sure that you’re actually intentional about what you want a page to be showing up for.
Julie [00:10:35]:
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Like, I know, like, I’m a WordPress person, so in WordPress I have the Yoast plugin, which is very helpful. And so. Okay, like, I, you know, we build our pages with the right content, right? Like the copy to speak to the, the purchaser and all that. But we don’t even think about the formatting of it for SEO specifically because I’m sure that people are looking for what’s on my sales pa. But whether or not it’s translating into like, whether or not the bots are finding it is like something that, you know, is to be reviewed for. Sure.
Jules White [00:11:18]:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And there are a few. Like, often it’s the same mistakes that I see time and time again where people maybe haven’t got the page title set or they’ve left it as the, the standard one that Yoast puts in there. And sometimes it adds your business name into every single page title and every single description. Whereas actually you could use that information, use that area a lot better. If you know that you want your sales page to be showing up for a particular search term, there. There are often lot.
Jules White [00:11:45]:
A lot better ways to use it as well.
Julie [00:11:48]:
Yeah, and I mean, it goes all down to also like using the keyword or the key phrase. Focus. Key phrase. Like, you know, there’s a number of times it should be used in your like, like stuff like that, right?
Jules White [00:12:01]:
Yeah, it does. And, and actually we are. We’re in. This is. One of the great things with where we are right now is it’s not so much of a case of like just putting that, that keyword in every 250 words or whatever and having to be that exact keyword that you want to show up for. Because now the bots are so much more. They’re so much cleverer and they understand a lot more about that person who’s doing the searching and, and the intent of that search. So whether they are looking to buy something or learn more information or, or they’re looking for a specific local business or, you know, whether they’re even more likely to be looking for a video to help them with this, or a blog or a sales, you know, some.
Jules White [00:12:40]:
A service provider. So it makes it a lot easier because it means that we don’t have to keep repeating that same exact search exam, same exact keyword every single time. So I always use an example. If you were talking about, like one of the first ever websites I built was a dog walker or kennels, actually. And if you’re talking about your dog at the start, you could talk about your pooch or your fur baby or your pup, and it would still get that it’s the same topic. So we’re in a. It’s a lot easier now and. But I say it’s a lot easier.
Jules White [00:13:12]:
It’s a lot easier in some ways, but it’s also a lot harder because it means that you can’t just stuff a load of keywords into a page and actually hope to show up on Google.
Julie [00:13:20]:
The bots are more sophisticated.
Jules White [00:13:22]:
They are, they are. And they have, they have this explosion of content out there as well. So that’s the other thing, is that it’s not just about creating content now. And this is maybe moving on to a little bit more about AI search. But now we need to be able to show that we have real lived experience in the things that we’re talking about as well. Because if we’re just using AI to create our blogs and not putting any humanization into them, not putting our own perspective, not rewriting it so it doesn’t just stand immediately stand out as AI written copy, which we all see the things and think like, yep, AI’s written that one, then why would it show our blog when it’s already just regurgitated content, that it could just create itself? The AI bots could just create that themselves and deliver that answer straight away to the person doing the searching. So that’s where actually us having Our experience having statistics, having case studies of clients that we’ve actually worked with, and even our own perspective and our own opinion on things is really the way that we can stand out now as well. Really.
Julie [00:14:24]:
I love that. I love that. So, like, like, relatively, how long does it usually take for SEO to start working? Like if we put all the work in, you know, optimizing our pages and starting, starting, you know, your blog posts or. And also like, I guess podcasts would fit into that as well, right? Because I mean, for me, I know that my podcast episode goes onto a post as well.
Jules White [00:14:52]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So it does depend, it depends on where you’re optimizing. I do a lot of work with local businesses and we work on their Google business profile, which is one of the biggest things that you can do as a local business to make sure that you are showing up and, and to help to support your website SEO as well. And with that, the changes that you make to that can show up like literally the next day, you can make a change to your profile today and you could be showing up to a new customer in Maps tomorrow. Whereas when we’re talking about Google crawling through our website, usually it takes about three months for Google to start understanding what’s going on and to start seeing a result from it. And that doesn’t always make it easy because you might make a few changes and then have something happen where traffic drops off a little bit or it increases a little bit. And things are quite volatile at the moment anyway because of the changes in search and more searches are being delivered in the AI overviews. So a lot of websites are getting traffic dropping off.
Jules White [00:15:50]:
So it’s quite hard to say that something has definitively you’ve done one thing and it’s caused this to happen A bit like with Mark, any kind of marketing, it’s a bit like that I think really, isn’t it? Yeah, but yeah, so normally we’d say you wouldn’t expect overnight results. I always say to people that the work you do on your SEO now is going to pay dividends in 3, 6, 9, 12 months time and beyond. And I think it’s the and beyond part that’s the most important thing to watch, understand. But also podcast SEO, if you’re optimizing your podcast in the podcast app that you use, like I use buzzsprout to host my podcast, if I do some optimization there, that also can be a lot faster than the stuff that I do on my website. So that can again, if I change my podcast name and help to and actually optimize it, then that can show up tomorrow again straight away.
Julie [00:16:40]:
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. And here I am thinking I need to change the. Not I need to. But I want to change the name of my podcast again. Because I started out as the Virtual Summit show, but like, I’m. We’re talking about so much more. We’re talking about getting visible, growing our email is without social media and all that stuff.
Julie [00:17:01]:
And I’m like, that’s so much more than, you know, the Virtual Summit. It’s like events and collaborations, but also the backbones of it. Right.
Jules White [00:17:10]:
Yeah. I mean that the great thing about podcasts is it’s not quite like the same as a domain name where we choose it and we really do have to stick with it, otherwise it’s a lot of hassle. But with a podcast, a show name is something that you can change fairly regularly. And obviously then it does involve rebranding if you’ve got all your branding and everything, or your show art and that kind of stuff. But you could, for yours as well, is you. What you could do is just add a little extension to it. So it could be the Virtual Summit show, and then you could add something into that that then expands on it. Like, I think at the moment, my description on my podcast is something.
Jules White [00:17:47]:
It’s called something like the actual name of it, if you looked on by Sprout, it’s called something like, I don’t know, SEO for small businesses, the website Success show, or something like that. So. And I. And actually it’s really funny you’ve said that, because I’m thinking of how I can get social media is optional into my podcast name as well. So we’re very much aligned on this. The whole social media is opt.
Julie [00:18:10]:
Stuff. I know. It’s so optional.
Jules White [00:18:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I’m at that point now as well where I’m thinking, okay, well, I need to tweak my podcast name. And. Yeah. And. But yeah, it’s easier to do, I
Julie [00:18:22]:
think also if we tweak it, but it’s still the same sort of idea, then it’s not as bad as, like, completely changing lanes.
Jules White [00:18:31]:
Yeah. And you don’t. Even if you did yours, you don’t even have to change the art. So the artwork could still say the Virtual Summit Show. And then it’s just literally the bit that you people would see in their podcast player apps that picks up on those keywords that you’ve just set up there. So it’s a. You. You don’t even have to.
Jules White [00:18:48]:
And you Wouldn’t even necessarily need to call it something different. Like I always tell people my web, my podcast is the website success show. I wouldn’t then say the whole big long breaks. Right?
Julie [00:18:59]:
Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So like speaking of podcasts, like you, you say that it’s. Are they easier searchable than like stuff on your website? Is that what you’re saying?
Jules White [00:19:12]:
It’s not so much easier, but different. It’s different type of search really. So I think it’s. So yeah, it’s easier to show up in a podcast player app. So somebody’s looking on Apple Podcasts. Or Spotify.
Julie [00:19:23]:
Yes, or Spotify. Yeah.
Jules White [00:19:24]:
Yeah, it’s easier for you to stand out on that if you’re really specific with your podcast about who it’s for getting those keywords into the, into the show name and the descriptions in a way that people might be searching for. So maybe you would say in your descriptions it’s something like if you’re, if you’re interested in how to get more traffic for your website, if you’re interested in grow using collaborations to grow your business, having those kind of questions in there could help it to show up in the podcast player apps. But that may also then help you to show up in Google for that kind of stuff as well. Because podcasts themselves can show up in Google, particularly if you’re good at using, making sure the transcripts are in there because Google would need to see the written version of it. But if you’re also then putting those transcripts onto your website as well, that all helps with getting your name out there. Talking about these particular keywords that you want to show up for.
Julie [00:20:15]:
Yeah. Question about the transcript. When you say putting the transcript in there, are you talking about the whole written transcript or a link to the transcript?
Jules White [00:20:25]:
So what a lot of people will do is it depends on your podcast player app as well. Like I, in buzzsprout we have an actual tab for the transcript and it does it for us and everything. But I then when I create a blog for that on my website, I have the embed of the podcast episode. If I do put, if it’s one that goes on my YouTube channel, I don’t. We were talking about YouTube at the start. I don’t use YouTube that much, but I do have some audit style episodes where I’m sharing my screen and that kind of great. And that would then also be embedded on that page. And then I normally with the transcript I would have a little drop down box.
Jules White [00:21:02]:
So it doesn’t, so it’s not like you see the whole transcript on the page as soon as the page loads. But.
Julie [00:21:07]:
Okay, so you put it in that drop down like the accordion or whatever.
Jules White [00:21:11]:
That’s the word I was looking for. Yeah, accordion. Having an accordion that says like, read the transcript or something like that. And it is quite good to make it so it’s not just one wall of text. So I have. I get Gemini to do that for me where I get it to make this transcript readable.
Julie [00:21:27]:
Right.
Jules White [00:21:27]:
But having that in there, then all of those amazing things that I’ve talked about on the show is then associated with what I do and is then associated with my. My domain name. If people are searching, then that all helps.
Julie [00:21:40]:
Okay, so good. Right. Because I use creator for Spotify and it’s. I. There is not no tab for a transcript.
Jules White [00:21:50]:
Okay.
Julie [00:21:51]:
So.
Jules White [00:21:52]:
So, yeah, so do they let you add a transcript yourself or anything? Because you would think they’re like one of the biggest platforms, aren’t they? That’s the one that I always see people have either either listened on Apple podcast or on Spotify. So.
Julie [00:22:05]:
Yeah. And you know, like, to be honest, it’s quite. It’s not actually. I don’t love putting my show notes in Spotify because it’s wonky. Like if it’s not formatted properly, when you hit that save button, it goes all funky. Yeah, yeah. And so I can link stuff, obviously, and it will link out. You can decide if you want it to open a new page and all that stuff.
Julie [00:22:34]:
But there’s no, there’s no like transcript spot. Like I’d have to actually like copy and paste a whole transcript.
Jules White [00:22:45]:
So for you, then you’d probably be better putting it on your website because then at least, I’m just saying, yeah, click here for the full show notes. And I’ve thought about doing that with mine as well. Of actually, like not putting so much in the show notes in Buzzsprout and actually getting people.
Julie [00:22:59]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Jules White [00:23:00]:
Because then we’re increasing the traffic to our website as well then, which is a good thing. The more eyes we can get actually over on our own website, the better.
Julie [00:23:08]:
Yeah. And so how much is how much or how little should we put in our show notes on the app that we’re putting it on, like Spotify, for example, or buzzsprout or whatever app, whatever podcast host we’re using. Right. Like, what is the good rule of thumb when it comes to seoing our contents?
Jules White [00:23:33]:
So I don’t think there’s a rule of thumb in terms of how Long you want it to be. It’s not like, oh, you need to have a certain amount of words in there. I think as long as you’re people actually read it. Yeah, yeah. Like I only ever look at show notes to either get. Get a link that they’ve talked about or, you know, that. Those kind of things to be nosy to find out more.
Julie [00:23:53]:
Exactly.
Jules White [00:23:54]:
But this is more for making it searchable. So if there’s an important topic that you’ve talked about in that episode, you probably would want to at least have. At least have that title of it there in your, in your show notes. Really?
Julie [00:24:05]:
Okay. Okay.
Jules White [00:24:07]:
I normally do mine in like a standard format of. On mine. Of key, key, key points covered or something like that. I, I use them.
Julie [00:24:15]:
I do this thing.
Jules White [00:24:16]:
Yeah, yeah.
Julie [00:24:17]:
And so my, my, my description, my show notes is always the same format.
Jules White [00:24:22]:
Yeah.
Julie [00:24:22]:
But then the more majority of everything is on the blog.
Jules White [00:24:26]:
Yeah.
Julie [00:24:27]:
And if I have a guest, obviously I’ll put the freebie in the show notes and stuff like that so that they can access it. But then. And a little bit about that speaker as well. But there’s the, the bigger, bigger stuff is on the website, which also there creates more SEO. But I was linking my transcript, so I think I’m gonna start copy and pasting the transcript under an accordion.
Jules White [00:24:52]:
So where was your transcript before?
Julie [00:24:54]:
My transcripts are in Cast magic.
Jules White [00:24:57]:
Okay. Okay.
Julie [00:24:58]:
So I just. So I just link it.
Jules White [00:25:00]:
Yeah, no, if you can keep them on your website. The longer we can keep people on our website, the better, I think.
Julie [00:25:04]:
Yes, yes.
Jules White [00:25:06]:
And also then you’ll. Those keywords that are in that transcript of what you’ve been talking about are then on your own domain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it’s little things like this that we just don’t think about until we actually have a conversation about SEO.
Julie [00:25:18]:
I know, I know. I love it. I love it. Okay, so, so we talked about, like, I know this conversation can go so many different ways. Is there anything that I left out in terms of SEOing our website and stuff like that? Because I’d love to get into the whole getting found by AI. Like, let’s talk about that.
Jules White [00:25:39]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think definitely a big part of this that ties in with collaborations and getting found in AI is there’s so much power. So one. So with AI search and, and showing up and get. Getting recommended, getting cited in those AI recommendations as the trusted person. So somebody’s asking a question to AI and you want to be shown up, showing up, then a lot of it is SEO, I would say 80% of it is making sure that your, your SEO is in place, that your website is readable. There’s lots of all of the different things that you can do. That your website is technically sound as well is something that’s really important.
Jules White [00:26:19]:
Things like page load speed is actually becoming more important now because Google’s bots will maybe have two or three tries. It’s crawling through your website. Google wants to actually crawl through your website and put it into its index so that it then can make deliver the information that people want. Whereas AI bots will not. They’ll just keep moving and they’ll just be recommending your competitor if you’re, they won’t wait for your, for a slow website to load in the way that Google maybe would. So that’s really important. So if you’ve got lots of really large image file sizes or if you’re using loads of heavy code in your website, or if you’ve not, if you’re using WordPress and you’ve not used a something like WP Rocket to speed it up, then that’s an opportunity to immediately optimize. But so 80% say, let’s say as is normal SEO.
Jules White [00:27:11]:
And then on top of that, what we also need to be, is cultivating a positive sentiment about our brand throughout the whole of the Internet. So we need to be showing that other people also trust us. Yeah, I talked about the having an opinion. So if there’s something where you want to put your plant your flag in the sand and this is what I believe, and this is why I believe it from working with people, or if you have a signature framework or something like that that you, you use in your business, now is the time to start getting that out there. And by doing collaborations where we’re actually getting our name out there from other websites. So if, if you’re, for example, if you’re in a virtual summit and you’re featured on the summit page with a link directly to your website, then that is sending signals to Google or well, to Google and to AI bots that somebody else trusts you. And it’s another link coming into your website as well. Even better if it’s reviews or if you’re being featured in like if you’re being talked about in forums in a positive way, that can be a really great way to show that your business is trust that you are trustworthy.
Jules White [00:28:20]:
But even in stuff like showing up in directories. So I work with a lot of therapists, like psychotherapists and sometimes even just having the directory listings can really help. We went through a time where you used to have, like, with SEO, where you used to have just being all of the directory listings, and then that became less important. And actually now with AI, it is helpful to have those and giving the consistent message wherever your business is, that this is what you do, this is who you help, and this is why you are better or not, you know, better or unique to everybody else that’s out there, really. So the collaboration part, I think, is really powerful because the more, the more that you can show your expertise in different places online, the better.
Julie [00:29:05]:
Okay, that’s really interesting because, like, that’s not common knowledge, I don’t think.
Jules White [00:29:10]:
I mean, I think it’s, I think for people who are hosting summits as well, it’s a great selling point of being part of a summit. The, the fact that actually this is going to help you. And especially if you’ve built up your own authority on your website and you’ve got a good, you’re a trusted domain. You’ve got a good domain authority, and you are. Google sees you as a, as a trusted brand and a trusted business. That can then be really helpful if you’re, if somebody’s getting a link from you into their website as well.
Julie [00:29:39]:
Yes, yes. I, I, I link. Like, you know, obviously I podcast. So the web, the, the post that’s going to contain all of your links and, you know, because we have to outlink, that’s important too, and everything. Because what, why wouldn’t you. Because, like, it’s, you know, it’s, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. Right. But that’s so cool.
Julie [00:30:00]:
And I love that you just talked about that, the importance of collaboration, because a lot of people are, don’t think about that part. Right. And I think that that’s super huge. I think that’s so important. And I love, and also, like, we were having this conversation just the other day in my school group about how, you know, we don’t see the leads sometimes quickly coming from podcast guesting. But podcast guesting is so much more than getting the leads and. Right. And you know, this, like, you know, like, we don’t get that many leads from guesting on podcasts, but what we do get is more visibility, more, you know, authority and expertise, and you’re just building in a different thing when you’re guest podcasting.
Julie [00:30:49]:
But here goes the SEO part of it.
Jules White [00:30:52]:
Yeah, definitely, definitely. And saying that about not getting leads from them. I’ve got the first ever podcast I was on. I had A client find me through that podcast two years later. And that’s the power of it, I think, really. And people always then feel, if they’ve heard you talking, they feel like they know you so much better, they can trust that you actually, and especially with the podcast, I think, I think guest podcasting is actually, it shows more of your authority because we can all sit here and read from a script and get kind of some, A lot of people can get away with it in terms of podcasting, if we’re, if we are podcasting. And not to say that there’s anything wrong with scripting, but we could. Anybody can appear to be an expert right now is probably what I’m trying to say.
Jules White [00:31:35]:
Because anybody can generate something from AI and read it out loud, but in this kind of context where we’re, we’re talking to each other. It, it would show if I didn’t know what I was talking about. It would show, wouldn’t it? So I think that that’s where guessing can be really powerful.
Julie [00:31:49]:
Yeah.
Jules White [00:31:50]:
Let alone building the relationships. And I think that relationships, I always put that above everything. So above websites, above, you know, SEO, above everything. No algorithm can take away the relationships you build in business. And this is a great way to do it.
Julie [00:32:04]:
No, it’s all about the relationships. I know, like, I have friends, like, I swear, I swear to you, like I’m going to add you to my, my UK tour now because I want to go, I want to go to England specifically because that’s where most of you are. But I’m like, I just want to go and go visit all my friends throughout the country from Wales, like to all the way to the other side. Plus my, my half sister in law lives in London. So like for now, I don’t know how long she’ll be there for, but, but she may eventually come back to Canada. I don’t know. But like, yeah, definitely. She’s been there since 2019, I think.
Julie [00:32:42]:
Beginning of COVID anyways. I remember, yeah, surviving co in London. Another country.
Jules White [00:32:48]:
Yeah. So we’re about an hour, we’re about an hour outside of London and I’m definitely in between Wales and the other side. That’s me in the middle there.
Julie [00:32:58]:
Really?
Jules White [00:32:58]:
Oh yeah.
Julie [00:32:59]:
I love it, I love it.
Jules White [00:33:00]:
You’ll have to come swimming with me.
Julie [00:33:03]:
I have to like, like put the map and then put little dots where all of you are.
Jules White [00:33:09]:
I love that. I love that. Yeah, I love it. I love that school. The school community does that, doesn’t it? It shows you where people are in the world.
Julie [00:33:15]:
I love it. I know, I know. I have a friend in Brighton and I know she lives there because it’s easy for me to remember, but like, I have someone that’s a little bit more east, northeast, and a little bit like everybody’s kind of on the outskirts of London or like an hour ways and stuff, so. But Vicki, Vicki, she lives out in the country. So. Do you know Vicki Atherenting? She’s the website. And honestly, like, all my Brit friends are so cool. I love them all.
Julie [00:33:47]:
They’re like, so awesome.
Jules White [00:33:50]:
I love it. My brother lives in California and he’s been in the US forever, but yeah, he’s still got his British accent and. Yeah, I think. I think people like that.
Julie [00:34:00]:
Really? Yeah, I know I do. Do you ever get rid of it? I don’t know. I don’t think so. But I’ve been watching. I know we’re totally going off track here, but I’ve been watching a lot of Brit tv and so sometimes I’m like. I’m like. And. And I’m sometimes I want to say like, you recognize.
Julie [00:34:20]:
Here goes the puppy dogs. Okay, going. Going back to the SEO.
Jules White [00:34:26]:
Yeah, we were talking about SEO. Okay.
Julie [00:34:31]:
I’m trying to look at my list here of questions. Okay, so if we’re like today we’re like, oh my God, like, what? This is all such new. What can we do to start. What can we start with? To start getting our bots and our. Our stuff in order to get found by the bots, either by Google searching or by, you know, AI finding us. Right.
Jules White [00:34:59]:
Yeah. So first of all, I think the first thing to do is to work out what you want to show up for. I think that’s. That’s not necessarily a given. So think. So being really clear, I always say whenever somebody comes into your website, they should know immediately what you do and the problems you solve, ideally who it’s for and what you want to be known for in relation to that. And then work out which page of your website is the best one to show up for that. And if you’re not sure, go to a Google search and type that thing that you want to be show.
Jules White [00:35:27]:
Want to be known for in and see what other types of websites are coming up. Because if you start trying to optimize a sales page for something that actually Google is showing loads of blog posts in, then you’re probably like, you’re setting yourself up then to make it. Make it your. Your. Make your work a lot harder. Really. So I would definitely say start with that. Know what you want to be known for and you know that’s the place to start.
Jules White [00:35:51]:
And then there are lots of free tools that you can get from Google. So there’s Google Search Console, that’s the one that like people often, often have heard of Google Analytics, but they haven’t necessarily heard of Google Search Console. But if you’re thinking about visibility and thinking about showing up in search, that the Google Search Console is actually a lot more useful because it tells you what Google understands about your website, it tells you how people are finding your website. So what people are typing into Google that’s then showing Google is bringing people through to your website and more importantly what you’re not. So if you have a very basic thing that you need to be showing up for and you’re not showing up for that in Google, then you can start picking apart why you’re not showing up for that. And more often than not it’s the. That we’ve not talked about it enough. I had a client years ago who was a therapist, a psychotherapist and she, her specialism was ptsd.
Jules White [00:36:44]:
It was the thing that she was amazing at and she. Most of her clients came through word of mouth and found her for that. But because when she was building her website and doing her training she was told that PTSD is too competitive to rank for and it put a little worm in her brain and she didn’t mention it anywhere on her website despite the fact that that was the thing that she should be showing up for and she would have been able to show up for in her area. But in we can often end up doing that where we don’t talk about the things that we actually want to be showing up for. So yeah.
Julie [00:37:13]:
Oh, that’s important. I was going to say something. I can’t remember now.
Jules White [00:37:21]:
I should have it about the Google Search Console, about Google tools, the Google Search Console.
Julie [00:37:26]:
I never knew about that either. I’ve just been introduced to it and it was because I’m actually my website is old and my website, my actual like URL juliecbutler.com used to be my photography website and so bots are still finding photography related stuff when it comes to that. So anyway, so long story short, I downloaded the plugin, I believe it’s called redirection or something like that. And so it’s helping me get rid of all those four the everything that’s going to 404 pages that matters because some of them it’s just bots doing their thing. But that’s been really Helpful and finding, finding links that I had that were still out there sending people to random places on my website. Because when you’ve been in business for 10 plus years, your website, there’s a lot of old stuff in the back end of it because if you, you retire links or. But they’re still out there somewhere right then then that can also be harmful to your. Could that be also harmful to Google Search if you’ve got broken links and stuff like that?
Jules White [00:38:34]:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So if I’m doing an audit for a client that will be one of the first things that I look at is what are the broken links, what needs fixing, what’s in a redirect loop where it’s pages going round around in circles. That kind of stuff is really important. Definitely. Yeah. And quite often with that I find pages that are random as well like Rand. Especially if someone’s using a website builder like WIX or Squarespace and you’ll find a random template page that they didn’t even realize was is actually out there on Google and they’re like really get really embarrassed.
Jules White [00:39:02]:
It’s like I can’t believe that somebody might have found that. But it’s all out there and unless you know these things then you don’t know how to fix them or you don’t know you need to fix them.
Julie [00:39:11]:
Yeah, yeah, I know like sometimes like I like templates and I love hello you designs and but she’s got her stuff linked so if you forget to change the link the links then you’ve got you. Not that it’s a bad thing that you’re linking to her website but, but you know, then it’s not linking properly and all that stuff.
Jules White [00:39:29]:
Yeah, I, I see it so often where people have got in their footer, they’ve got links to it, to their social supposedly to their social media accounts but it just goes to facebook.com or it goes to instagram.com and they haven’t actually put their own links in there. And that is one of the most common ones that I see or quite often now especially I think wix do this where it goes to wix’s Facebook page which is almost, it’s almost worse really.
Julie [00:39:52]:
Yeah.
Jules White [00:39:53]:
But that’s. I guess that’s a case of where people do often just ignore their website a little bit. Where actually just if you went and actually had a play around and explored your website yourself, you would see that that’s broken and. Yeah, and these are the kind of things that are not difficult, they shouldn’t be difficult to Fix.
Julie [00:40:10]:
And also like, not everybody’s techie, but there are plugins for this stuff and yeah. Make it super easy that we can fix things and optimize speed of our website and like even check the speed of our website and all that. And I think that like, if you truly don’t want to do it, maybe you need to hire out. Or maybe Jules, like, do you have like, you know, trainings or whatever that help with that sort of stuff?
Jules White [00:40:35]:
Yeah, I do. I have a membership that really helps with the SEO strategy and with getting the right things on your website. So making sure that. Yeah. That you are do it. Putting these things in place that need to be there really. But yeah, and there’s so much help online now. You know, if you’re not sure how to use your website builder, Google it because there will be YouTube videos out there.
Julie [00:40:55]:
Yes. And they’re pretty good.
Jules White [00:40:57]:
Yeah, they are. I think it’s a lot. There are. I talk to people every now and again where they’re in the unfortunate situation that somebody has hand coded their website. And if that’s the case, then that’s always really, really difficult to sort of unpick really. I spoke to somebody this week who’s just having a website hand coded for her and I was just like, oh no, why? It’s 2026.
Julie [00:41:17]:
Like there is no need for that anymore.
Jules White [00:41:18]:
We don’t need to do that.
Julie [00:41:19]:
Website templates for a hundred dollars now.
Jules White [00:41:21]:
Yeah. And I think it’s such a shame and I think it’s often women who are in that, that position where they, they are scared of the tech and there’s no need to be because things are so much easier now and we can have AI help us and talk us through the steps. So yeah, unfortunately that’s one of the things I want to help. One of the missions in my business is to help women not make bad decisions around their websites.
Julie [00:41:43]:
I know. And sometimes we just want to throw something up there and like. But some of these things are so important, especially like all of us, we don’t want to be, you know, like relying on, on social media. Remember we said it’s optional but like we have to do we. There are some things that we need to do in order to be found that will help us and then we can move into doing the collaborations, being in summits, hosting our own, blah, blah, blah. It’s kind of like a huge package deal, right?
Jules White [00:42:13]:
Yeah, it is, it is. And. But the social media part of it, you know, the, the trouble, the trouble with that and with paying for ads as well is as soon as you stop doing that thing, then it stops, the traffic stops. Whereas at least with SEO, with collaborations, then people can be coming in to your business for years to come. So that’s why I love it.
Julie [00:42:30]:
I love that. So as a virtual summit host or a bundle or whatever, if you are hosting that in a third party website, for example, hey, Summit, ThriveCart, whatever, there’s so many of them. Right. Does that still help the bots because it’s not on your website specifically. Right. So drive cart and you have to sign in to get access to whatever’s in there.
Jules White [00:42:59]:
So if the sales pages are on your own domain, then that helps. That does help. So whereas the stuff that’s behind the scenes, that’s fine. We wouldn’t want Google showing that up in the search results. So I see this quite a lot now where people will be maybe using a funnel builder and they’ve got their website, but then they’re starting to build funnels in a funnel builder. And I would always suggest that those amazing sales pages that you’ve written and you’ve put all this effort into really talking about the problems it solves and the solution, you know, the benefits it offers if you can keep that on your own domain. So build the sales page on your own website domain and then just go over to the funnels at checkout if you need to, because that’s the checkout pages. You don’t want them showing up in Google anyway.
Jules White [00:43:40]:
But that’s something I see quite a lot where people will then be building these amazing landing pages or sales pages in another domain that’s not really helping them. And then you don’t become known for the things, the thing, the solutions that you’re delivering. You don’t become known for that.
Julie [00:43:54]:
So yeah, and it’s funny you mentioned that because I have a couple of my low ticket offers, not, not my programs by any means, but and they’re in Thrive cart. So like I built the sales page inside of ThriveCart and I’m like, oh, like it occurred to me that that’s not on my website. And I’m like, it should be on my website. So I’m like, maybe I can just create a blog post about all of that and then send them to the checkout. Would that do the same thing? A blog post versus a actual sales page on my website?
Jules White [00:44:26]:
I would be more inclined to build a sales to build. Take that. If you’ve already got a sales page in thrivecart, I would be more inclined to Recreate that on your own website and then just go to the checkout page when. When over in thrivecart. But that’s just my opinion. That’s an SEO, but nobody.
Julie [00:44:42]:
You’ve been doing this. Yeah, yeah. Like, it’s, it’s funny because they don’t teach you that. Right? Like they say, like, oh, here are the, the sales page templates for, you know, Thrive Cart or whatever. But then you don’t have that content on your website, which is. Right. Like is Thrive Cart sales pages, are they Googleable?
Jules White [00:45:00]:
Yes, they would be. But if it’s not on a subdomain. So if it’s only if it’s-Thrive Cart
Julie [00:45:06]:
or whatever they use there, like juliecbutler.com or whatever it is, the link learn usually.julie c.butler.thrivecart. or whatever.
Jules White [00:45:16]:
Yeah. Then no, not really. That’s not building any domain authority. It’s not really increasing your main authority. Okay. That sort of.
Julie [00:45:22]:
For your website, want it on your website. So before you build any sales page, don’t even think about doing it other than on your website. Sometimes it’s just easier because the template’s there. So use the template. Right. But yeah, you know, I’m not saying that you. I, I use Cadence as a website builder and it can be a little bit finicky sometimes. You know, like some, Sometimes it’s easier to duplicate a sales page in thrivecart and put there.
Julie [00:45:46]:
But I’m going to say the last two sales page I made, I made them on my website. So
Jules White [00:45:53]:
you must have known this conversation was coming then, Julie.
Julie [00:45:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This was a lot of information and I think that. I think that we’ve. We’ve covered like a few different things, but I think we did a good job. Or else we could talk for three hours. Yeah.
Julie [00:46:09]:
Just say that you have your own podcast. Right. So if people want to learn more, they can find you on your. First of all, let’s talk about your freebie, which is the get found in search. Right. Is that your freebie? The quick.
Jules White [00:46:23]:
Yes, it’s a quick start guide. Yeah, Quick start guide. Just getting started with SEO and visibility and just a first step, really. So. But the podcast definitely is the place for more help and like, you know, to learn a lot more about SEO and marketing. Your business without social media is.
Julie [00:46:41]:
Well, okay. I love it. I love it. So that’ll be in the show notes, so make sure to grab that because I think that everybody needs to do this. Unless you’ve already been doing it, then you’re probably maybe not even listening to this episode, but I think it’s really important. But also you have a podcast, which you probably talk more on this subject and you said you have a membership. And so, you know, I’ll have all those in the show notes. So make sure that if you want to learn more about SEO and AI search, visibility and all that good stuff, make sure to follow Jules.
Julie [00:47:16]:
Right. Do you want to extend expand on that?
Jules White [00:47:19]:
No. I think you’ve done an amazing job. Definitely. So it all just. Just to say that my website is the website successhub.com and that’s probably something else we should. I should say that a lot of people will just share links to their social media and if you’re sharing anything, share the thing that you own. Share your own website. Yeah.
Julie [00:47:36]:
I love it. I love it. Okay. We shared their website. Perfect.
Jules White [00:47:41]:
Thank you.
Julie [00:47:41]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show again. We may have a part two of this. We might have to. But thanks so much. It was so nice meeting you and talking to you and all the good things.
Jules White [00:47:54]:
Thank you so much for having me.
Julie [00:47:56]:
You’re welcome. And if you’re listening to this, I will chat with you next time. Stop recording.